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Re: Closer (2004)
| | Added by Bob on 2004-12-06 17:24:07 |
This film was a piece of crap; a bunch of unlikable characters spouting off explicit language. I wanted Jude Law and Clive Owen to just die. What's more, there isn't any nudity despite part of the film involving a stripper. Some Natalie Portman nudity would have helped immensely to salve the rest of the film but Nichols dumbly cut it all out. Idiot. Imagine all the Star Wars fans flocking to it if she had appeared nude. It could have been the next Titanic.
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Re: Closer (2004)
| | Added by Bill King on 2004-12-06 18:55:52 |
What if the characters were likable? Would it then be okay for them to spout explicit language? Not every movie needs likable characters. Some of the best films of the last ten years feature characters I wouldn't want to know (Monster, Bully, Boys Don't Cry).
As for Natalie's nude scenes, Mike Nichols felt they simply weren't needed, and he cut them. Don't give me any of that garbage about how if the scenes weren't needed, Nichols shouldn't have filmed them. What looks good on paper doesn't always work out when the scenes are acted out. Of course, you weren't concerned with his artistic decision anyway; you just wanted to see Natalie naked, which is pretty childish. I fail to see how the film would have been improved if you saw her naked. The characters would still be unlikable, and they would still use explicit language.
Oh, and people flocked to see Titanic because of word of mouth. Its continued success resulted from repeat viewings because it struck a nerve in a lot of people. No one saw it five times just to see Kate Winslet's nude scene.
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Re: Closer (2004)
| | Added by Bob on 2004-12-06 22:35:10 |
At least I'm honest about what I want in a movie. I like character driven dramas just as much as the next person ('We Don't Live Here Anymore' is 10X better than 'Closer') but this was just bad. By the way, if the film is so good how come it received a poor D+ grade from CinemaScore audiences (general public polled)? Only stuffy critics, like every hack who calls themselves a writer on your site's staff, could like a film like this pile of garbage.
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Re: Closer (2004)
| | Added by Gizmola on 2004-12-07 02:44:05 |
Bob,
Something you said struck a chord with me, related to the difference between some that is good and something that "everyone likes." I personally don't give a hoot what "CinemaScore" or any of the other exit polls say about a movie. I feel that same way about movies books and music. Using music as an example, people seem to love every rap group, boy band, midriff baring ex-mousketeer, mtv reality show subject, and star-search finalist that comes down the pike. Are these great musicians? Am I wrong in dismissing a large quantity of that so-called music, and gravitating towards other musicians that don't sell but a fraction of what these "superstars" sell?
There's a long list of films now considered classics that were commercial failures initially.
The other thing I wanted to say is, that as the programmer and infrequent contributer to this site, I know we are anything but a "stuffy group." Like any critic group, we have a wide range of opinions amongst the group. There are people of all ages who write reviews for the site. Our main criteria for adding people to the staff is a demonstration of the ability to put thoughts together in a coherent manner, and a desire to fill our small soapbox. We're the farthest thing from exclusionary.
We only post one review for a film, using the newspaper model, but that doesn't mean that the individual critics don't disagree. Obviously you don't agree with the review, and we welcome your appraisal... that's why this facility exists. Beyond that, you just aren't making much of a case for your position by throwing out some half baked assumptions about the critics of this site.
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Re: Closer (2004)
| | Added by Bill King on 2004-12-07 11:02:01 |
Well said Gizmola. I'd also like to address what Bob says about the "general public" disliking this movie. This is, of course, the same "general public" that turned The Waterboy, Armageddon, Flubber and Ace Ventura: Pet Detective into hits. The "general public" sees movies for entertainment value, not to deconstruct them. Closer has some funny scenes, but it's not really entertaining overall. I wouldn't be surprised if most people didn't like it.
As for being stuffy, I would contend otherwise. I like films as diverse as Star Wars, Titanic, True Romance, She's All That, The Treasure of the Sierra Madre, Commando and The Return of the Pink Panther.
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Re: Closer (2004)
| | Added by Bob on 2004-12-07 11:03:14 |
CinemaScore exit polls have been known to be an indicator of a film's box office performance though, so it and other services like it serve their purpose. As a result of apparently a large number of people not enjoying Closer, I would not expect it to do all that well at the box office in the coming weeks. I am not saying that you would care about whether it does well at the box office, but I am just saying what has been proven to come true often in the past. I don't think it's a concidence that National Treasure garned a B+ grade from CinemaScore and is now doing phenomenal box office.
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Re: Closer (2004)
| | Added by Bob on 2004-12-07 11:06:38 |
Bill King, by making the statement about Armageddon, Ace Ventura, et. al you seem to be condemning the public's taste, which defeats the purpose of reviewing films. After all, you are writing for the general public are you not?
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Re: Closer (2004)
| | Added by Bill King on 2004-12-07 13:29:41 |
Bob, general audiences don't read reviews, at least not out of habit. Walk up to Joe Schmo at the movie theater and ask him if he reads reviews regularly. He'll most likely respond with "What do they [critics] know?" and "It's just their opinion" or maybe even "Fuck no!" Occasionally, I've been within earshot of people expressing their disdain for film critics, and of course this was at a screening for some major Hollywood film that received negative reviews.
I'm not writing for the general public, but for anyone who makes a point to read reviews in order to gain some additional insight. I read Roger Ebert, James Berardinelli and Walter Chaw the most, though sometimes I drop in on Dustin Putman and James Kendrick. The general public would probably hate my reviews. I once knew someone who couldn't believe I liked Bowfinger more than American Pie, which I still liked, although not as much. Guess which movie made more money at the box office.
It's fine if you don't like Closer. I imagine a lot of people won't, although there was a positive vibe in the theater I was in.
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Re: Closer (2004)
| | Added by Bob on 2004-12-07 18:22:02 |
Berardinelli is one of the most overrated critics out there. His reviews are about as stale as last week's bread. Ebert is much better because he injects humor into his reviews.
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Closer
| | Added by Stuart (email) on 2005-08-20 10:04:15 |
I was looking for a movie I really liked in 2005 and couldn't find one. The last really good movie I saw was Closer (on video). I don't understand why people didn't like it because I thought it was brilliant. It was one of those movies I saw again immediately after and enjoyed it as much the second time.
Bill King, I think that people who like movies read reviews all the time. The newspapers in Toronto (our film festival is coming up in Sept.) are polluted with reviews and I read them all. Others must too if newspapers keep printing reviews all the time. I don't necessarily agree with them all but for I do pay attention if the movie has serious content. Reviews for action flicks or comedies I don't care about.
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Re: Closer (2004)
| | Added by Bill King on 2005-08-20 10:53:24 |
Thanks for the comments Stuart. I imagine people in larger cities with nationally recognized film critics (also Chicago with Ebert, Rosembaum and Wilmington; and New York City with Canby, Sarris, the late Kael and the retired Maslin) read reviews regularly, but in many places in the USA, critics are not respected. I maintain that if you walk up to Joe Schmos in any random American city and ask them if they listen to film critics, the overall assessment is that critics suck.
As for "Closer," I'm glad you liked it.
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